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Welcome To The King podcast season 2 today we’re joined with Maddie would you be able to introduce yourself just for

the people listen in at home yeah absolutely so I’m Maddie I’m one of The Midwives at Kings I currently work as a

mid referee advisor which is a new team that we’ve set up over the past three or four months um so I work with a couple

of other midwives basically being everyone’s Midwife so we’re no one specific we’re open for everybody it’s a

complimentary thing we’re always around for Dro and support and we teach the antinator classes um new silly questions

for us we have a WhatsApp line so anytime anything you want to know in your pregnancy you can always reach out

to us um as well as um my background is for the last year I’ve been working on the labor Ward here at Kings so um a bit

of both and I still hope to do a few shifts on the labor Ward for is where my heart is um but it’s great experience

you know for for real life scenarios that all the questions that often get asked it’s a good thing you said no City

questions because we might have a lot of City questions today Danielle and I have never been pregnant we want to put

ourselves in the position of pregnant women and talk about pregnancy fears today so let’s start with right as you

get pregnant what kind of requ questions do women come to you with like just as they got pregnant or found out I think

the biggest thing is like what do I do now because I think I mean it’s scary taking a pregnancy test one if you know

is it going to be positive is it negative and also there’s so many scenarios why people do them you know

have they been trying for a long time is it a surprise unplanned or you’ve just

had a baby and then recently found out you’re pregnant again which happens a lot and we can get into that later but

yeah often it’s just like that shock you know even if you’ve been trying and trying it’s still a oh my God like it’s

happening so often it’s like okay what now so especially here in Dubai because

it’s consultant L care and the first thing really is like to choose a doctor we have the luxury of doing that here in

Dubai so always I just send them straight to like a website and just say have a look through you know we have so

many different doctors that are so good in all their own different ways so that honestly for a lot of people is like a

make or break kind of thing you know either you know it’s because of the language that they speak so they feel

more comfortable speaking in their in their mother tongue or it’s because they specialize in like natural birth or

C-section or high-risk pregnancy and often even if you’re pregnant for the first time you’d know if you had

something that would mean you’d need something you know medical history or something like that um so that’s kind of

the place to start and then obviously the midwives are around so often if they’re coming in for their first

appointment we’ll just say come and chat with us because always there is so many questions what can I eat eat what can I

not eat what can I do am I allowed to exercise like all of these kind of like just general questions but they are

obviously important ones because we do we don’t want to harm our our six week old baby or whatever time you find out

so yeah they’re kind of the general ones really for the start so I guess one of the big questions that you get is when

can I tell people yeah definitely and I think the thing is there’s no right or wrong so if you especially people always

want to tell like their moms or you know the person that they know who’s been pregnant because they want to get that

reassurance and ask all the questions to and I always have you know I’m always the first to know because usually they

text me and they’re like what do I do you know and it can be from the moment you take the pregnancy test if you need

that support or for other people they want to wait until the kind of big screening tests and things like that so

the first kind of bigger test that you’ll have is around the 12we point where they do the first scan and they

test for lots of different conditions so things like down syndrome um Edward’s syndrome P things like that so often

they kind of you know big conditions that it’s worth thinking about beforehand some people will choose not

to do the screening um some people will um and then the other test is around the 20 weeks where they have the anomaly

scan so again that’s looking at all the structures for the baby and things like that so some people especially if

they’ve maybe had a miscarriage before or a baby with one of the conditions um

and they might tend to wait a bit longer and however there’s kind of a more recent food for thought that actually

people don’t want to tell you know their friends and family in case they were to have a miscarriage or something went

wrong but actually I think about it like if you did have these things happen to you you want the support from those

people so actually you know if you do have a few trusted people that would support you through anything positive or

negative then my thought is maybe you should tell those people because they can support you then throughout

everything yeah that’s so true I feel like from the minute you find out there’s so many things that you could be

thinking of so many concerns running through your mind I bet a lot of moms like from that first appointment leave

it with like a weight listed off of their shoulders like get all of these questions out speak to obviously

professionals I that that feeling is like yeah I hope so that’s the aim anyway but also like now we started our

new Instagram page so the idea for that because you can Google everything I’m always like please don’t Google things

because Dr Google is never a good idea and especially with pregnancy one thing will tell you you can do it one will

tell you you can’t and you know it’s it’s just never a good idea so the idea is with our team and and obviously like

good sources of support and like the Instagram is it’s all the contents come from us so we meted it all we have made

sure it’s evidence-based and also the evidence-based changes all the time so I’ve been a midwife a qualified Midwife

now for almost four years and in that time even from what I was taught in University to now some of that advice

has completely changed so it’s for us as well to stay up to date so always it’s one of those kind of you know what is

that latest evidence why is that a thing and also converting it to duai as well

because for me obviously I’m from the UK and I trained in the UK as a midwife and the practice there is similar because

we’re in Kings London and we try and match that as much as possible but there’s differences so even like for a newborn baby the temperature is very

different here to in the UK so what’s the different advice for hot weather and stay hydrated and that kind of thing so

yeah for me always I try and stay as up to date as possible because like you say I’m the adop to Google so I need to be

making sure the information I’m giving is you know solid and evidence-based it’s quite nice that

there’s one team as well because Google can be quite overwhelming I think pregnancy in itself can be quite

overwhelming so something else that people must have a lot of questions about espe in the first trimester is

what foods I can and can’t eat and there’s so many foods that people have questions about so what would you say to

them I could go on all day about what foods and drinks and things like that but always I tend to stick with again

because I’m British Dre Midwife I often stick to like the NHS guidelines um so

actually on the NHS website the UK um NHS is basically an A to Z of all the

foods and whether they’re safe and whether they’re not and how cooked they need to be and what precautions you need to take so that’s often a really good

way to start and then if there’s any specific questions then I can try and help around that but like I say it’s

difficult because things do change so quickly all the time so sometimes I’m even researching things because they

could have changed since I last looked or whatever whereas something like that is always being updated all the time

there’s teams specifically to do that and so usually I kind of will say you know take a look at that and then let me

know if there’s more questions um Cathy is another one as well because a lot of

people have a lot of copy so actually that wasn’t a point that you but

absolutely you know especially if you’re really tired in early pregnancy which often is the case um but in general they

just say like 200 milligrams so usually like one average size cup a day and then

or have Decap um as well is important and same actually with breastfeeding on the other side people kind of forget

about it by then um but actually caffeinees in a lot of things you don’t think about you know some like fizzy

drinks like you know I don’t if I’m allowed to mention names fizzy drinks

and um like even panad doll some panad dolls have caffeine in um so it’s just

really being aware and you can drive yourself crazy with some of these things but I always just think if you’re ever

unsure that’s what our numbers for I have countless times ladies just sending me pictures of the back of a packet and

saying is this okay or not but that’s that’s fine that’s what we’re here for so okay so the only time Dr Google is

allowed is when you’re at the NHS website but what foods can I and can’t I use okay oh NHS in general is

okay yeah so the first trimester people are generally

confused um so many questions what’s the second trimester like um honestly it’s

often people feel it better by the H of so maybe like morning sickness and things have kind of subsided and so they

talk about like the pregnancy glow and things like that but also I think it’s really important because especially in

the day and age that we’re living in every think social media related it’s normal to not feel the pregnancy GL and

feel super amazing and you know you’ve got a bump and all of these things like some people have a tough time in

pregnancy and they are really tired and and don’t feel like you know doing a lot of the things they normally would do so

I think normalizing that is really important as well and but often women say that that’s kind of their favorite

time of being pregnant because they’re not super pregnant so they haven’t got like maybe the aches and pains they might have later on um and then the

sickness is maybe gone as well so often it’s kind of yeah maybe a an nicer time

as part of the pregnancy and at that point especially around like the 28 week Mark is when really we talk about like a

pattern of baby’s movements and things like that so you know that also makes it very real for a lot of people they’ve

maybe felt a few flutters and things and think is it a kick is it not but really from then and and again that’s a big

advice that we always give to all women is babies movements are their only way of actually telling you if they’re okay

or not so listen to them get to know their pattern um and again that’s something that the evidence has changed

over the years so sometimes we hear people saying like you know actually

they might slow down their movements near the end of pregnancy because they’ve run out of room but it’s all myths so they should not change their

pattern at all and it’s not even just like a re Bo movements it could just be that okay every morning I wake up and

they’re kicking away and then one morning they are kicking but they’re kicking a bit less than normal or they’re not kicking at all all of those

times after 28 weeks when you learn their pattern um we always want you to

come in and get checked because like I say that’s their way of communicating with us and it is you know often you

come in we put the the ctg monitor on and then they start kicking right crazy which is brilliant but I always say like

we’d rather you come in 10 times and every time they kick like crazy and that one time you know so that’s a really

important thing that we do always kind of spread the word about cuz there is a lot of kind of misinformation around

that um another one we always hear as well is like sit down spend an hour like

have a sugary drink have something to eat and actually that’s not the current evidence because that’s just delaying

you coming for a checkup you know and if your baby is showing signs that they’re not so happy and they we need to do

something then youve put that off by an hour cuz you sat and You’ eat and then you know after you’ve s out half an hour

to get to the hospital or whatever it is um so yeah that’s kind of a big message

that I think is important in that second trimester to really know about and then obviously that’s tipping over into the

third trimester as well so as a woman your body is changing and I think

probably in the second trimester is when you first experienced those big changes what you said yeah I think so and I mean

a lot of it hormonally is really like first trimester because your body’s realizing it’s pregnant and it needs to

do a lot of things and the tiredness is really a big thing because because you can’t see anything necessarily you

almost forget how much your body is doing like especially in the first 12 weeks all those major components you

know the spinal cord and the neural Pathways and all of these really important things are being made and you

know then obviously the second trimester is more like the little details so you know the fingernails and the eyelashes

and things like that and you know always no matter what you’re doing even if you’re sleeping your body’s still making

this little human so I think it’s easy to forget how much it is doing and you know always I get as like oh I’m so

tired or I’m always really thirsty I’m always hungry it’s like well yeah you’re doing a lot of work like you need to

fuel your body and often especially in the first trimester with sickness and things like that is just eat them little

and often because you still need to fuel your body and same with the second trimester well all the way to sure

really but stay well hydrated if you don’t feel like big meals at least like snack little and often and then you’re

at least given your body a chance because these babies they just take take take care from you so they will leave

you feeling rubbish if you’re not replenishing that and and often as well maybe you need like iron supplements or

something because again that’s a common thing for pregnancy to have lower iron again your baby’s taking it all from you

um so it’s just fuel in your body going forward as well as so important I feel

like a lot of concerns that you’ll mainly get is kind of fear of Labor

especially for first time LS I mean we had a quick discussion before the podcast and like what would our concerns

be and what would our fear be and a lot of it was about mine was be the exact like giving birth that would be the

scariest part of I think it’s the the pain Association right and it even like

in films TV it it looks scary yeah and so what kind of concerns do you normally

get is there certain questions that people are always asking yeah I mean I think it’s just a generalization like

you say our society has not grown up around birth being a normal thing and

you know back in the day you’d be in your house with the women of the family moms aunties sisters grandmas around you

to support you in birth and that’s kind of where midwives actually came from is like you know with woman is what Midwife

actually means so it’s all about being with the women and supporting them through lifechanging thing so often I

think we’ve lost that you know in the UK I worked um with a home birth team when I was a student midwife and it was

amazing because actually the first home birth I ever saw was um it was her I think fourth baby of all girls she was

also one of I think maybe four girls and her daughters were around they were you

know just they were quite little but they were aware of what was going on and then as soon as the baby was born they

all were crowded around her pool that she had at home and yeah it was such a lovely experience and for me that’s like

Ah that’s what Bird’s really about and you know unfortunately through time it’s great we have medical advances and we

give birth in hospitals sometimes but they do save lives but also I think we’ve forgotten what nature intended and

I teach a hypn birthing so the way I think about birth is sometimes a bit different it’s kind of going back to

okay well what did nature intend what was the reason for that and how can we make that possible in a hospital setting

for example so especially around like pain and contractions and the actual

giving birth it’s just really about reframing the way you think about it and

and that’s kind of what the hypn birthing is all about because basically if I was to ask you guys what’s the

first three things that pop into your head when you think about becoming a parent labor but give me an example of

what you think of pain pain yeah fa yeah not prepared

unprepared and I always do that actually at the start of my HIIT birthing classes and then by the end we get the pieces of

paper back out and say have I changed your mind um because actually you know it all about just reframing your brain

because your subconscious is there to keep you alive it’s like your fight or flight and again hospitals also are

usually a place you come if you’re unwell or something it’s not good or family members not well so they’re all

negative things and you know luckily in Dubai a lot of the time we choose hospitals for different things so you

might only come here because you’re pregnant and because you’re having that nice experience but still it’s just your

body knows you’re in this kind of scenario so it thinks adrenaline I need to save myself like why am I here kind

of thing and especially in labor that can be really kind of slow down the process and you know ping these thoughts

of fight or flight which is the last thing that we need when we try to calm and in control and get those good

labor hormones going so basically what you need to do is reframe what your subconscious think so the way you do

that is just exposing yourself to positives so positive birth stories positive affirmations speaking to

like-minded people speaking to midwives you know all of these kind of things that tell you that it’s not as bad as

you think it is and you know we wouldn’t make good TV or films if we had these lovely normal birs they want a bit of

drama so they’re never going to show you truly what birth is and you know I’ve been with hundreds of women in labor and

actually a tiny tiny proportion of the time is it actually an emergency where

it’s not so calm and in control but the majority of people do have positive births but they don’t tell people about

them because we’re not programmed to tell people about the positive things we’re always tell a negative um actually

a doctor was telling me the other day that you know if someone had a negative experience they’d tell 500 people but if

someone had a positive they till 5 so we don’t hear these you know and especially when you’re pregnant everyone rushes to

tell you their awful birth stories and you think why you know or even to ask about the hard part so what do I need to

like watch out for and stuff but not really ask about okay what was good yeah absolutely and it’s really sad because

actually it’s amazing and for me like where my background when I was a student

was and why I found the hypn birthing route kind of the way I try to practice my Midwifery is so I was doing a nursing

placement and um I was on a like a Alzheimer’s Ward and there was a lady

who was I think she was about 90 really Advanced dementia and she couldn’t even

tell me what day of the week it was but she noticed on my badge that I was a midwife and she said oh what are you

doing here and and then she said um all six of her births she could tell me from start to finish and I was like that is

amazing so that just shows how important your birth experience is and for a lot

of people it’s just like I’m going to go in I’m going to get it done and then I’ll have a baby at the end but it’s not about that because it stays with you

forever and actually you know being prepared will make it a positive

experience no matter what it looks like so whether you you know plan a natural water birth with no medication or you’re

having a planned elective C-section or you want an epidural whatever that is as long as you’re well informed and

prepared and you’re making decisions that are right for you that’s the most important thing and it will be the best

day ever cuz you’re meeting your baby after all this time and it will like although yes you might have other babies

and there’s other times to have different experiences the thing I always say and people listening that have met

me will laugh CU I always say it is you only have one chance to have that baby so the baby that’s being grown right now

you have one chance of doing that birth so don’t compromise don’t feel like oh just see you know plan for it educate

yourself make sure you’re happy along the way ask question questions feel well supported cuz that’s the thing that will

reduce the likelihood of birth trauma or and especially for dads as well because actually a lot of dads are the ones that

come away maybe with like birst trauma or negative experiences because the moms obviously get so much going on and

hormones and everything and baby pain relief but for the dads they’re almost like sober in that situation they’re

taking everything in and often the mom might have gaps in the memory that then the dad will fill in so even again again

like in all of our classes we encourage the dads to come along and and educate themselves as well one to be a really good birth partner but also to process

it themselves because they’re also going through they’re becoming a dad they’re going to have this new baby to look after and they’re going to see their

partner the person that they love you know going through something that if they don’t know what’s going on it can be really scary so it’s really important

really as a team you know whether your birth partner is your husband or your mom or a friend whoever it is do it

together cuz the preparation together will then make the birth experience and life with a newborn much easier and

hopefully more positive as well your positive opin and Outlook is exactly what people when they H in the rooms

like you can do this you’ve got this it’s a good so the message really is to enjoy it like where you can like it

doesn’t have to be scary I mean everyone’s going to be scared because it’s the unknown and you don’t know but

yeah you got to enjoy it and I think as well we can take comfort in the fact that like our bodies are amazing and

they know what to do right like they your body will give you signs and tell you what to do throughout the whole

process yeah and that’s another thing that I always like when I say Going Back To Nature is actually you know your body

you trust it to grow the baby for nine months and then we suddenly lose this trust when it when we have to give birth

it’s like why have you lost the trust now it’s done it’s grown those eyelashes it’s growing those fingernails and every little detail it’s just that it is our

kind of subconscious and that’s telling us that birth is scary birth is this awful thing that we cannot you know do

and we need help for it okay so you just given the birth your baby you’ve had a wonderful experience it was great the

fear of then having this human to look out so it’s out of its little bubble

it’s out of the controlled environment what’s the next step yeah

and that often is the really scary part because you’re in the hospital you’ve got you know a nurse at the end of a

buzzer you’ve got doctors always checking and then you’re sent off home and then it’s like okay what now and and

often you know parents say they just are looking at this new baby they’re like okay this is mine now I’ve got to keep

this little thing alive and fed and watered and happy and honestly you know

it is a challenging time and this is where I think the teamwork really comes in yeah however you’re feeding your baby

whatever choices you make is you know make sure you’ve got that support system around you as much as you can and we’re

looking at Kings actually my colleague Nicola she does the home visits so for us in the UK Community midwives is a

standard you would always have a community Midwife come out to you at home usually the day after you’ve gone

home from the hospital and then usually like back day five and maybe day 10 um

but here obviously it’s a bit different because midwives are always like an added extra um but actually a lot of

insurance companies do cover it here so it’s always worth checking and if not then it’s worth every penny um because

it is it bridges that Gap um you know if you don’t have another appointment back in the hospital for a week or two weeks

then it’s a long time with a new baby to know they’re okay and they’re gaining weight and you know their Dawn dis

levels are okay all these kind of things that you just want to know and again our Midwife advisory line is still open once

he have the baby so we can still help as much as possible um always again I get lots of pictures of rashes and different

things and cords and say is this okay is this normal and that’s fine that’s that’s why we are here um but it’s great

to be able to have someone to come out to your house that is a clinical professional and we’ll bring the kit

that we need to do not only for babies but also for the mom so we’ll also do a top to check top to toe check of mom and

um you know if you had any stitches or you had a C-section and your wound um to be checked nickel it all of that as well

so it definitely is just get your village I actually went to an event yesterday that said it takes a village

and it’s very true and think about it beforehand because sometimes it’s a bit too late when you get there and you’re

like oh overwhelmed and over tired and and it’s just you and your partner maybe you know then it’s difficult to find it

but SE these things out beforehand and have like an action plan in place almost so okay you know I my first plan is to

exclusively breastfeed if there’s any issues with that then who am I going to go to for support okay well I’ve got the

midwives I’ve got the lactation consultant I’ve got you know external providers like all of these things that

you can line up so if you need them you’ve got them hopefully you won’t but at least then you’ve got a plan and it’s

not like 2 a.m. and Dr Google comes in and and you know frantically looking for

an answer um yeah that’s that’s really a good idea to do beforehand so one thing

you mentioned Hypno birthing I don’t know if we actually mentioned what it was uhhuh can we quickly just describe

do you know what it is no idea so I know it’s about positive affirmations and reframing the way that you think about

pregnancy breathing techniques I’ve been to an event with Maddie where she’s done what is the what is the

shap so yeah please continue explain yeah absolutely and basically what it is

is just gaining knowledge so it’s like an indepth antinal education so

obviously we have like General antinator classes that cover a bit of everything um but this the way I teach it is over a

month so it’s like every we do it every Tuesday evening um for two hours with

your birth partner comes along it’s actually very birth partner focused um and I teach from a UK company the little

Birth Company um so it’s brilliant it’s just one of those things that everyone who’s done it doesn’t regret it even if

they had an emergency c section and it was you know we planned for plan a and we ended up at plan Z you know it still

was helpful you know and really it is learning the evidence behind the care that you’re getting so you can advocate

for yourself know that the choices you’re making are the right ones for you it is very much geared around a positive

birth experience so no matter what that looks like it can still be positive because you’ve prepared and because you

know you’ve got a good team around you you know you’ve maybe prepared with your husband or you’ve got a Dueler or

anything like that um really it is like you say breathing techniques is a big one a lot of women who do the hypn

birthing do choose to kind of avoid pain medication but it’s not a must you can still plan to have an epidural or or use

an epidural and still use the techniques really as as well it’s about learning what your body’s doing so start to

finish what does label look like you know what is happening on the inside so you can recognize if something’s outside

of that normal and then think about things you can do to help your body so working with it and not against it is a

massive one um and I think once you have that understanding it all gets a bit less scary anyway um because you just

know okay you know this is a normal thing it might take a couple of days of stop and start contractions and a first

time M you know I’m not flock watching and you waiting for all this to happen and think oh it’s too slow something

must be wrong you know it’s normal so already you’re more calm and therefore your birthing hormones will do what they

need to do so it really is trust in the process as well and understanding we

can’t always plan for birth these babies and your body might decide something different on the day or on the leadup

and the plan might change but knowing we do a lot of scenarios as well so if this was to happen you know what does the

evidence say and making it individualized as well because you know a lot of the things that we do teach in

the anti-at class for example we have to make it General because there’s all sorts of women with different scenarios

and backgrounds within it that a lot of the time is just having like the one-on-one time as well so again drop

into the clinic if you have anything along the along the way because we have to look through all your pregnancy notes

if you’ve got any medical history um and sometimes I think it’s forgotten because we do a lot of the like sideline things

here we are clinical professionals so we can assess your pregnancy we can

recommend if a water birth for example would be recommended or there’s reasons that it might not be so safe all of this

kind of thing alongside your obstetrician and we do work very closely with them to figure out you know is

there a way that this might be outside the guideline but what’s the way we can work that so you still can get the

things that are most important to you out of it um all of this is really relevant to HP birthing but also mid

wise in general and what our role is and which I also don’t think people really know cuz we’re not midwives aren’t a

thing in every country um we’re lucky in M we are the lead care providers so you

know we actually only refer to a doctor if something’s wrong so it’s good thing if you don’t see a doctor there whereas here it’s the complete opposite so a lot

of women um especially from European countries because midwives are often the lead care providers for normal pregnancy

um are kind of shocked where it’s like well who’s my Midwife where is my Midwife and that’s kind of what we’re

trying to do with our new team is be everyone’s Midwife as much as possible it’s a lot of work but it’s it’s nice

because we can follow people through all the way if they want to they could come and see us after every doctor’s appointment if they want to as well so

it is just knowing that we’re there and that’s what we’re here for so really you are like a a huge pillar of support for

these women right yes then your roll in a nutshell exactly that’s all we do yeah

absolutely but I think as well it’s important to know that when you are in labor you’ll have onetoone care with

Midwife um obviously cuz we’re King’s London we’re trying to match that British care as much as possible and

that’s what you would have in the UK um and obviously we work again alongside jobs attrition very closely um with the

plan and updating them but often that large sense of support and clinical care for labor is from The Midwives and so

that’s also something that people don’t know until they turn up on the day um you know it’s not necessarily that you

can meet them before because we all do shifts and but actually even if you can’t meet them before they’re all great

so you’re in good hands with whoever you’re with um and again midwives are trained to be Advocates we are the

experts in normal and even if you have a very high risk pregnancy we can still make the things happen so for example

you want your music on you want the lights low you want to be mobile we’re there to suggest positions and monitor

the baby monitor the labor you know give suggestions if things are slowed down how can we help to speed them up you

know aside from medication you know positioning and breathing and all sorts of things really as a sense of support

but at the end of the day as well we are clinically trained professionals to spot if something’s outside of that normal so

if it is that’s our time to refer to a doctor which again would be our UK practice but even more so here the

doctors obviously around a bit more because they’re the lead care provider um but we are often the ones who are you

know reading the heart rate of the baby assessing the contractions doing like

the internal examinations to see dilation all of these kind of things so it’s a bit of both we’re a bit of

everything really okay so we’re going to finish off with our final question that we ask everyone and yours is what is

your top secret for dealing with pregnancy okay I think the biggest thing is don’t forget that your body knows

what it’s doing trust your instincts and don’t be afraid to advocate for yourself

because you know your body best and you will know your baby best whether it’s in pregnancy whether it’s during labor or

when the baby’s born you know you will be thrown loads of kind of tests and scans and vaccinations and options and

it’s difficult to navigate that so seek help don’t Dr Google it um and and

honestly trust your instincts is my biggest message because you know we have lost that over time and we need to

definitely trust ourselves our bodies are amazing things that that do incredible things as well so trust it

and don’t be afraid to reach out because we’re here to help yeah thank you so much for coming

on the H we have so many questions so we’ll probably have you on again I’m

s thank you


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